Prop. 8: a brick in the wall of hate

[drewkitty]

Insufficient attention is paid to deviousness on the part of the Religious Right.

They wanted to "win" Prop. 8 but just barely. Not by the two-thirds it would have taken to approve an LCA, but by a simple majority. This leaves the door open to further legal challenges by the gay community. These further challenges can then be pointed to as an example of gays using the activist courts to create privileges which did not previously exist.

Strategic offense, tactical defense. Perfect political strategy.

The Religious Right is in it for the long haul. A counter-offensive is called for:

1) taking away the tax-exempt status of churches who participate in politics

2) outlawing automatic employer payroll deductions which go to religious groups (Mormons in UT)

3) Imposing strict civil liability on churches and pastors who counsel vulnerable populations, when a person commits crimes or suicide and bad counseling was a contributing factor in the crime and/or death. If a teenager kills himself because a priest says that his sexual orientation is offensive to God . . . is that priest a contributing factor in the teen's death? Shouldn't the priest be held accountable?

4) cutting down on the extent to which private religious school attendance ("madrassas" as I like to call them) can be used to substitute for secular K-12 education

They want to indulge in hate speech? Let them pay for the privilege.

Comments

[chiefted]

1) taking away the tax-exempt status of churches who participate in politics

You would like to see this correct?

Cause there is a "church", and I use that term loosely, that had a whole bunch of Yes on 8 sign, on their property
and I would love to see them loose any tax exempt status that they have.

[urox.livejournal.com]

While I am quite unhappy with the low turnout for No (compared to other propositions), I wouldn't cut down on private school substitution for k-12. Frankly, it's better in some cases. The drop out rate is sometimes lower. Sometimes the education is better. And sometimes it's safer from the extreme of crimes committed on the campus. I had no problem learning about the church for four years. It equips me all the better to fight the hypocrites.

[kensan-oni.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't call the turnout low... just not large enough. :(

[mantic-angel.livejournal.com]

Um... what?

Churches =/= Supporters of "Yes on 8"

SOME churches, yes, but not all.

1) If we want to take away the tax-exempt status of all political organizations, I say go for it. Saying religious groups can't be political is discrimination if you're not willing to apply it equally to other groups, though.

2) On WHAT basis are we going to outlaw an employee donating money to a religious group, exactly? o.o

3) I'm assuming this liability would extend to all others in a counseling role, regardless of whether or not they're religious?

4) Again, what basis is there for this?

I'm angry that "Yes on 8" lost but I'm not going to become an anti-religious bigot and attack allies like the Unitarian Universalists just because of the actions of SOME Churches. I am not going to encourage random and arbitrary laws just to support hatred against SOME Churches.

[polymathwannabe.livejournal.com]

ALL *OTHER* non-profit organizations are required to stay out of politics or lose their tax exempt status.
If a library, zoo, or museum posted a sign saying either yes or no on any prop, they WOULD lose their tax exemption privileges.
Why should churches be different IF they want to choose sides and throw funding towards political causes?

[mantic-angel.livejournal.com]

Seriously? I thought organizations like the EFF and ACLU were non-profits. If churches really are a sole exception then I totally agree with you. I basically feel that their status as churches should be simply ignored for all legal purposes, neither favoring nor penalizing.

[justeps.livejournal.com]

There are different kinds of non-profits. Churches have the most restrictions in part because they are tax-exempt and charitable contributions to them are tax-deductible. Still, the only absolute prohibition pertains to candidates for elected office, i.e. they couldn't back Palin. Declaring Proposition 8 a "social issue" put them on safe ground as long as they didn't go overboard.

Religious organizations that want to meddle in politics simply affiliate with like-minded, but legally separate, 501(c)(4) non-profits.

[drewkitty.livejournal.com]

1) Churches are exempt from taxation because the power to tax is the power to destroy. In exchange churches have agreed not to support specific political causes, until now. I believe both Mormons and Catholics have crossed the line. These are wealthy empires with significant numbers of paid employees and considerable landed properties, just in the US.

2) Many employers in Utah set up all employees to tithe to the Mormon church. To ask that this deduction be removed is to identify oneself as non-Mormon, which is widely believed to result in employment discrimination. All I would ask here is that this be changed to "opt in" rather than "opt out."

3) So far religious organizations have evaded considerable liability on this point. Would we tolerate a doctor who told a pregnant teenage girl that she was going to hell for her sins? Or commanded her to undergo, or not undergo, a medical procedure under pain of everlasting torment? We don't tolerate this from doctors -- why do we tolerate this from preachers?

4) The argument for public education is that people are being prepared to be productive members of society. If private churches are teaching hate in such a way as to be disruptive of society, should we choose to tolerate this?

[rue-gingertabby.livejournal.com]

1. Agreed, grew up in one of the worst. They were proud of their "tax-exempt" status.

2. Do not know enough to form an opinion.

3. We should not tolerate any kind of social manipulation in this way.

4. We should not allow it, period.

[jwoulf.livejournal.com]

I like your ideas and, wish to subscribe to your newsletter :)

[thomasj.livejournal.com]

a-fuckin'-men

[tetralizard.livejournal.com]

Please consider signing a petition to the governor to reopen prop 8 for California.

http://www.petitiononline.com/seg5130/petition.html

[mercyorbemoaned.livejournal.com]

You really want a for-profit, taxpaying LDS church? Have you thought this through?